Discussion post: Nebula's arc

[sholio]

Let's talk about Nebula's arc through the movies! That kind of arc is absolute id catnip for me and it's so rare for female characters to get the kind of development she gets. She starts out as a fairly one-dimensional antagonist, and I would have been happy if we'd just gotten the development she got in GotG2 when she levels up to shades-of-gray antagonistic ally, but THEN IW and Endgame happened, and she got to journey onward on her villain-to-hero arc, from the bitter, angry person she was, to someone who is starting to learn how to have friends!! and is solidly on Team Hero in the last few fights. I never dreamed we'd get this much Nebula content!

What do you think of her arc now that we have four movies' worth of development? Favorite parts? Least favorite parts? Any missed opportunities, or things you'd do differently?

Or just anything Nebula-related you want to talk about; that's good too. :D

Comments

[sixbeforelunch]

I really like her! I didn't expect to post-GOTG1, but she grew on me in GOTG2, and by Endgame I was fan.

I'm really impressed with the thematic bookending of the Gamora and Nebula relationship. At the end of GOTG1, Gamora is the one who wants to save her sister and have a relationship with her, and Nebula hates Gamora. By Endgame, the dynamic has totally flipped, with Nebula trying to save a Gamora who has never experienced what "our" Gamora did. I'm hoping we get to see how this plays out in the next GOTG movie.

Also, I'd love recs for Nebula on Earth fic if anyone has any. Gen preferred. (Background canon ships are fine.)

[copperfyre]

I basically love everything about Nebula and Nebula's arc, I really didn't think she would get to be anything other than an antagonist after GOTG1, but she got so much story!

I guess my only complaint is that I wish they hadn't killed off Gamora and sort of replaced her with Nebula (not that they have the same story at all, and they can't and shouldn't be replacements for the other, but I couldn't shake the feeling watching IW and Endgame that they went "we only need one space expert woman as a character, now we can throw one over a cliff!"). I did really appreciate how Nebula did get to react to Gamora's death a lot, and that it was really important for her character and not swept aside, I also wish we'd just had more of both of them together. Though I am excited to see how they continue to handle the Nebula and different-Gamora relationship in the next GOTG movie! In summary, I am clearly very conflicted, haha, but I really love Nebula.

[lynnenne]

I love Nebula’s arc so much! My favourite scene is near the end of GotG2: “I wanted a sister.” MY HEART. I also love her scenes with Tony near the beginning of Endgame. “I had fun.” HEEEEE. There’s so much humour in that moment, but there’s so much character development, too.

And Nebula and Rocket holding hands!!! <3

It helps that Karen Gillan is AMAZING in the role. I believe every tilt of her head or roll of her eyes. “The choices were him or a tree.” Hahaha!

[kore]

Not to be a total downer, but I loved Nebula from the start, loved her arc in GOTG2 and IW and EG, but I absolutely hated when they had her kill her old self. I have the feeling they're just going to gloss over it in further movies, too.

That said, she had some of the best moments in Endgame period -- "That was fun," "We become sisters," and her and Rocket just sitting there silently holding hands.

[kore]

Yeah, I was NOT thrilled at how fungible both Gamora and Nebula turned out to be in IW/EG. Gamora had to be sacrificed, but here's another one! This Nebula had to die instead of being able to change! Ugh. Hell, even Groot got to be "different" when he came back as a shoot, at least according to Word of God. And I really don't want GOTG3 to be just Peter convincing Gamora she loves him again (I do not like that ship). If it's more Nebula interacting with Gamora, that would be great, but I doubt that's where they will put the emphasis. (Ah well, guess that's why we have fic....)

[kore]

I often really think that little bit between Tony and Nebula at the start of the film is the best scene in it. It's just so tiny and touching, but it sums up so much.

[copperfyre]

Yeah, exactly! We couldn't have had... both of them? At the same time? I feel like they're never going to do anything with Nebula shooting her past self. And from-the-past!Gamora is also not interchangeable with present-but-dead!Gamora, but again, apparently we're just treating these four separate people as replaceable with one another... which... no...

I also hope that is not what GOTG3 is!

[kore]

Yeah, and it really hurt because I loved both characters so much. And it just wasn't enough Gamora had to be sacrificed by the guy who kidnapped, abused, and traumatized her, it was like epic HOLD MY BEER when Nebula shot herself. (Clint was right there! Clint was RIGHT THERE and had already murdered many people during the movie.)

[schneefink]

I didn't like Nebula until Endgame, but then I loved her. I never expected that kind of character development, that was a wonderful surprise :)
Though I was not that happy with the ending she and Gamora got, I'd fix that.

[lynnenne]

It is!

[sholio]

Yeah, I really had no particular feelings for her after GOTG1, aside from being into the sister relationship from Gamora's end, but then movie #2 happened and her development was just so good, and Endgame gave her more development than I ever dared to hope. :D

I do really like the bookending too. I didn't like losing "our" Gamora (understatement of the year) but it does set up a very interesting dynamic with Nebula, now that she's the functional one and the one who really wants to have a relationship! I agree with you, I hope that'll be developed in the next movie.

Sadly I have no recs for you off the top of my head - I haven't been reading much in that area lately - but I'll keep my eyes open. :D

[sholio]

YES, her arc was all so completely unexpected and good! :D I wasn't expecting anything like the kind of development she got -- GotG2 alone would've been great, but then EG gave me SO much more Nebula than I ever thought I'd get!

Totally agree with you about Gamora's death, though! I was really heartbroken about it; I just wanted more of their relationship - it was so good. The Nebula-nu!Gamora relationship is also something I'm looking forward to, but I wanted it aaaallll. D:

[sholio]

"I wanted a sister" - yesssss. All her relationships were so good; she has great chemistry with everyone. I never thought a Nebula-Tony friendship would be something I'd get this into, and yet here I am.

And yeah, Karen Gillan is just brilliant at it. She really sells Nebula's growly, damaged prickliness.

[sholio]

Yeah, I was pretty upset about Gamora, not gonna lie! Nebula getting such a large role in Endgame was a lovely surprise, though.

[sholio]

I'm honestly not sure how I feel about Nebula killing her past self -- as opposed to Gamora's fate, which I had DEFINITE FEELINGS ABOUT and they weren't good ones. >:| In Nebula's case, although it was a shock and not really the direction I would have gone personally, I could buy the in-story reason for it, and I feel like Nebula in particular doesn't have a fixed enough sense of her own history that it would have been as big a deal for her as it would be for some characters; she's been remade so many times, including by her own recent actions, that I don't think she really thinks of 2014 Nebula as her, if that makes any sense.

... that said, you could do some really interesting/angsty things with it in fanfic. Or fixits, of course!

[kore]

You know, I've been thinking about this a lot, and I think it even gave me the idea for a fic! I love this comm.

//needs sisterly GOTG icons

[kore]

As an ETA, the Endgame script is online "for your consideration" and 2012!Nebula is "BAD NEBULA" in it, lolol (as opposed to "A1 Steve" and "Smart Hulk")

http://disneystudiosawards.s3.amazonaws.com/avengers-endgame/Avengers_Endgame.pdf

(No rly. "GOOD NEBULA steps from the shadows, hands raised, placating.
Bad Nebula stares at her future self.")

[bold_seer]

She's a dark horse, isn't she? People mentioned being so impressed by Karen Gillan. After GotG1, I didn't really see what they were impressed by. But Nebula has a great arc, and by EG - I love those understated scenes: Tony and Nebula, (re)connecting with Rocket.

I thought EG sounded really bad from spoilers, but then I didn't hate it. Maybe I would have, if I'd had another ten years of investment. But canon is what is, fic can be anything, and even though criticism brings up good points - points that I maybe didn't think of, that the movie makers maybe didn't think of - I'm done with negativity.

Did I love Nebula shooting other Nebula? Maybe not. I agree with all your points, though. It sort of makes sense in context, and Nebula is constantly remade.

Do I love that the Gamora we know may have been replaced by essentially a stranger? No. I clicked on a fic (other characters) and realised I tend to dislike, say, shipping a character from a different timeline with the "original" version of another character. That's not the right person!

Are there a million ways to continue that story, and is there something interesting about Nebula and Gamora having almost swapped places? Probably.

[bold_seer]

The less you know, the better you feel. Thanks for the link, though!

[kore]

The less you know, the better you feel

At least where the Russos/M&M's writing for women in the MCU is concerned!

It's interesting, it's obviously not the shooting script and more a mashup of a final draft plus stuff that was in the reshoots (Clint and Nat's fight, "I am Iron Man") but also some interesting - and +. Frex, like I thought, the whole little sequence between Nebula and Tony at the opening seems to have been improv, probably at RDJ's instigation because he loves doing that with younger actors (Holland and Olsen both remarked on it).

[kore]

Do I love that the Gamora we know may have been replaced by essentially a stranger? No. I clicked on a fic (other characters) and realised I tend to dislike, say, shipping a character from a different timeline with the "original" version of another character. That's not the right person!

It seems brutally IRONIC that that was a main point of Into the Spider-Verse, which came out like four months before Endgame and was such a much, much, much better movie.

[bold_seer]

Pretty much what you said about Nebula (and Gamora)!

This isn't maybe quite what you were thinking, but I thought it was lovely, anyway:

Gamora & Nebula, double drabble - https://archiveofourown.org/works/18082394

[sixbeforelunch]

It was lovely, thank you for the rec! :)