Identity Issues in Space

[lynnenne]

Hello, and welcome to your weekly Sunday discussion post! I finally saw Captain Marvel, and this week's topic is related to that movie.



There were many things I loved about this movie, and one of them was the exploration of Carol's identity. She literally does not know who she is at the beginning of the story, and she finds herself through friendship, affection, exploration, and the discovery of her own power. Finding one's identity is one of my favorite storytelling tropes, and it seems to be one of the common threads among my favorite characters:

• Carol, as described above
• Loki, who thought he knew himself, only to find that his entire life (even his species!) was a lie
• Thor, who thought himself the first-born, only to learn in Ragnarok that Hela had preceded him (and that their father had hidden her existence)
• Valkyrie, who used to have a purpose but ran from it after she lost the person who meant the most to her
• Bruce, who is literally two people

What other characters have identity issues in the MCU cosmic universe? Peter Quill? Gamora? Rocket? What identity issues to you see them suffering from? And is it a story you relate to?
 

Comments

[kore]

Valkyrie, who used to have a purpose but ran from it after she lost the person who meant the most to her

VAL //sobs

(CAN I JUST SAY HOW EXCITED I WAS TO SEE VAL ON THE POSTER)


Gamora and Nebula definitely have the identity crisis thing going on -- Thanos kidnapped them and did his best to turn them into weapons (literally). Gamora says something in IW like "Everything in me that I hate came from you." And Nebula's two big drives are literally to kill Gamora and then Thanos (Karen Gillan just quoted this on her instagram!) -- it's like she has no identity, no desire, apart from that at all. Identity issues are my favourite kind of jam (re non-cosmic characters I love Bucky and Nat for this). And Rocket at least in the MCU doesn't seem to have any family background at all, more like he's an experiment? "I don't got that long a lifespan anyway."

It's interesting that MCU has so little of the classic comics identity porn, where people see Iron Man and Tony Stark as two very different people, like Batman and Bruce Wayne -- of course they blew the gates off right at the start with "I am Iron Man," which is a stunning moment, but I have to wonder if they ever regretted starting it off that way as the franchise blew up tremendously. It seems to dictate all the identity issues are going to be psychological rather than plot-driven. I think Spiderman's the only one in MCU with an actual secret identity? //total tangent

[used_songs]

Agreed on Nebula and Gamora. They were literally kidnapped and told they were Thanos' children and that they were sisters, but there's no nurturing like you could have with children who were adopted (vs kidnapped and abused). So they've lost their home worlds, their families, and their peoples; then they were told they're sisters but they're pitted against each other.

I may be one of the few people who saw the Avengers trailer and saw Tony Stark and Nebula and got MORE excited at seeing her - I really want her to have role in whatever goes down. I feel like she needs justice.

[kore]

I really want her to have role in whatever goes down. I feel like she needs justice.

YES. Her and Gamora.

[ayebydan]

YES. Justice for Nebula. Karen did so well to create such a deep character given the relatively small amount of screen time she had and Nebula is an angry android most of the time.

[kore]

She had to sink her voice down so low! And she's bald and covered in makeup! My husband honestly didn't recognize her, and we've rewatched her Doctor Who seasons a lot.

[lynnenne]

Gamora says something in IW like "Everything in me that I hate came from you."

Oh, I forgot about that moment. So great.

And Nebula's two big drives are literally to kill Gamora and then Thanos (Karen Gillan just quoted this on her instagram!) -- it's like she has no identity, no desire, apart from that at all.

Yes, she really needs a purpose of her own. Justice for Nebula!

It seems to dictate all the identity issues are going to be psychological rather than plot-driven.

I actually prefer it that way. Psychological complexity can make for super-interesting stories, when done right.

[kore]

I loved, LOVED that awk. ward. hug. between Gamora and Nebula. I totally want more of that, where Gamora is like "Let me human at you" and Nebula's all "Aagh, how does this work? I hate you the least? I no longer wish to rip off your arms?"

I guess identity porn is like the comics equivalent of "Let's swap coats and everyone will think we're each other" in opera/Shakespeare/&c &c. I think the only time I've seen it done really convincingly was Christopher Reeve in the Superman movies.

[snickfic]

LOL, my takeaway from this list is that I love characters with identity issues EVEN MORE than I realized I did. What a great list. <3 In particular I am super into the unrealized narrative potential stemming from Carol's backstory and her experiences with the Kree, and how that might shape her going forward, especially if she only recovers some of her memories of her former life on Earth. Like, how does she integrate her remembered Earth-self with the Kree-self she thought she was AND the person she actually lived as for six years? I want to read so much fic about this. Please, fandom. 🙏

I would also be interested to see fic exploring Thor going through a similar though lesser crisis to what Loki experienced years prior. I don't think it's going to have near the effect on Thor, both because "you're not the oldest" is a lot less foundational a discovery than "you're adopted and a different species" and because Thor is just a different person than Loki, but still, it's interesting to think about!

[ayebydan]

I think with Thor it was more the realisation that everything he thought he knew turned out to be a lie too. His father was not the good man he has spent hundreds of years thinking he is. His mother, who he adored, was complicit in all the lies. Asgard is not rich on noble victories but on the horrors of a sister he never knew. He then continued that path thinking he was doing good. At least Hela knew she was wrong but didn't care. His brother is adopted and has gone off on one. How does he lead a people he can't even relate to anymore? Who else knew? Can he trust anyone at all? So it is a bit more woe me than others but there is still a lot for him to break down and at the worst time too.

[lynnenne]

His father was not the good man he has spent hundreds of years thinking he is. His mother, who he adored, was complicit in all the lies. Asgard is not rich on noble victories but on the horrors of a sister he never knew.

Yes, that would be a lot to absorb. I think Thor did have some inkling of how power corrupts when he turned down the throne at the end of TDW ("I'd rather be a good man than a great king") but there's a difference between suspecting and knowing.

[snickfic]

Very true. I would love to read some fic about that, but I don't know that I've seen any. I'm always interested in fic about Thor and his relationship to the throne.

[lynnenne]

LOL, my takeaway from this list is that I love characters with identity issues EVEN MORE than I realized I did.

THEY ARE MY FAVORITES. I love Bucky and Nat for the same reasons.

[kore]

In particular I am super into the unrealized narrative potential stemming from Carol's backstory and her experiences with the Kree, and how that might shape her going forward, especially if she only recovers some of her memories of her former life on Earth. Like, how does she integrate her remembered Earth-self with the Kree-self she thought she was AND the person she actually lived as for six years? I want to read so much fic about this

YES PLEASE

[snickfic]

I NEED IT. Realistically, I need to sit down and start thinking about how to write it, but I want it so much and it's such a big topic that I haven't found an in yet.